Comments on Tuttle SVC: I Like Being on the Same Side of an Argument as Di...

"[...] educational improvement has only been ...

2009-11-04T09:36:00.876-05:00

"[...] educational improvement has only been suggested in the low elementary grades."

Improvement?

I don't desire (generally) small(er) class sizes for my own child for "educational improvement" reasons as that is typically measured by testing outcomes. I value small classes as, ceteris paribus, they offer better opportunities in regard to relationships. How would you measure that?

Frank, I'm not, on the whole, a class-size ha...

2009-10-28T14:34:01.506-04:00

Frank,

I'm not, on the whole, a class-size hawk (although I am a total-student-load-per-teacher hawk).

And I'd say the point here is not "convince people that small class sizes are good," but to get people to confront the double standard they have between what they think is best for their kids and what is the right public policy for other people's children.

Tom, It is these myths that continue to drive pub...

2009-10-28T14:07:39.377-04:00

Tom,

It is these myths that continue to drive public education's costs and sustainability.

But what is most troubling is the inability or refusal of educators to honor the science of classroom research. When schools are active participants in promoting myth over science then how can education teach science or fact?

It is this built-in hypocrisy and disregard for facts and science that frustrate the science to have any veracity, no? If teachers can ignore facts then why can't fringe groups believe that the Flintstones is a documentary about the way people lived? Who does it hurt?

And how can we effectively lobby for sensible school reform when no one on either side cares about what might be in the best interest of the schools and children?

I think that by perpetuating lies, education advocates invite being marginalized. parents can believe anything they wish but the tax base is drying up all over the country and the cost of education has got to be regulated in sensible ways. I'm afraid that the pendulum will swing dramatically away from public education as it exists today unless it is truly changed internally to recognize reality.

Just thinking aloud.

cheers,

Frank Krasicki

Hi Frank, I imagine all three of us are aware of ...

2009-10-28T13:43:59.245-04:00

Hi Frank,

I imagine all three of us are aware of that research and have strong ideas about major changes that should be made in classroom instruction.

But, it is still the case that when I'm looking at schools for my children, I'm going to consider small class sizes a strong positive indicator, regardless of what the research says, as will the vast majority of parents. That's what makes this an effective argument.

Let me put it this way -- the way we think about research and public policy is different than the way we think of research and raising our own children, or organizing our own families and community.

The relationship between research and education should fall somewhere between the two.

Tom unfortunately there is a flawed logic in the s...

2009-10-28T13:08:29.840-04:00

Tom unfortunately there is a flawed logic in the small classroom arguments.

First, educational improvement has only been suggested in the low elementary grades.

Secondly, study after study has failed to observe significantly more personal attention being shown to students in smaller classes despite teachers believing they're delivering it and despite the belief of parents that their children are getting it.

Personal attention comes not from class size but from a wholesale change in the methodology of practicing classroom instruction.

- krasicki
http://region19.blogspot.com